2. As we get to about verse 32 in Hebrews 11, Paul says that he does not have time to get to all the other heroes of faith that the Bible gives us. Should the explanation in Genesis on how God created plants before the sun affect the understanding of creation? Summary:2 Samuel Chapter 212 Samuel 21 Avenging the Gibeonites A. David avenges the Gibeonites. What we do inherit of their sin is consequences. Who was the father of Mephibosheth? He attempted the genocide of Those who believe that they can outsmart, outflank or in any way outmaneuver our Enemy through cerebral strategies are doomed to the slavery and destruction heaped upon Saul and the Gibeonites. And, that was that. And these men, they need to be buried. Asked August 31 2013 But, very few people can relate to sinless perfection. There are so many things I have got to do.". lorraine goode. But so did David. Share Had David been righteous and been crying out to God, God would have heard him. God has torn the kingdom from you. He does not live long past the end of II Samuel. What do we do in a time of spiritual famine? And it would have been done quickly and easily. By this time, having fought all his life since he was a teenagerup against Goliath when he was eighteen or soand here he was approaching 70 years old, and he was tired. They have a discussion in the next few verses, and many Israelites want to go ahead and kill these Gibeonites for what they did. Their deceit, Israel's lack of vigilance and Saul's deep delusion caused God's people centuries of grief and embarrassment. ", The Gibeonites, we are told, were not necessarily a warlike people. The Bible does not provide us the details of this killing. The soul who sins shall die. So, he kept his own covenant, but he did not go any further to figure out from God's law to know what should be done in this situation. Therefore, there was a different system of justice than what the Gentiles were used to. Go back with me to Deuteronomy 7 and see the instruction that God gave to Israel about how to deal with these kinds of people. Matt 24:4/Mk 13:5/Lk 21:8. Saul killed a lot of people. Does the Bible encourage the practice of Lent? I don't know a great deal about this particular segment of those biblical people called the Hittites. So he brought up the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from there; and they gathered the bones of those who had been hanged. It was certainly alive and well in Israel. They do what their flesh tells them to dowhat Satan inspires them to want to doand they do it. They looked to Him and were radiant, and their faces were not ashamed. After that, God heeded the prayer of the land. But certainly, David was. So you shall not pollute the land where you are [this is very important]; for blood defiles the land, and no atonement can be made for the land, for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who shed it. fit into Creation? He does not seem to have asked the priest who would know the law the best to find out what Scripture said about situations like this. Each generation had to live out its days as "hewers of wood and carriers of water". Saul, after having disqualified himself from being king, sought to ingratiate himself with God by killing Canaanites, including an unrecorded massacre of Gibeonites. . "There was a famine in the days of King David for three years, year after year. WebDavid serves Saul with music on his harp Nov 24, 1025. In fact, look down to verse 15, II Samuel 21:15-17 When the Philistines were at war again with Israel, David and his servants with him went down and fought against the Philistines; and David grew faint. They had a more bloody and violent systemwhich often led to blood feuds that may not ever end until a whole family or generation was gone. Deceit and delusion are powerful spiritual weapons of destruction but they pale in potency compared to the creative and edifying Word of God come alive by faith in believers' hearts! This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles. And we are supposed to be ready. And the LORD answered, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites." Their representatives were not up front with the Israeli leaders. This was a long time ago. "There's something rotten in Denmark," as the saying goes. Now, if we would go through II Samuel 24, that even though David made a huge mistake in chapter 21, he did it right in chapter 24. Throughout the Scriptures warnings of spiritual dangers are signaled by the flash cards of attention getting words like: "Take heed" or "Consider". All answers are REVIEWED and MODERATED. This does not make any sense. He had a body of law that he could have referred back to and come up with a solution. That is not what it says here. This is pretty clear. Now, if they participated in his sin, then of course, they will bear the guilt for their participation in that sin. God punished the whole nation for breaking the covenant. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. He received good marks in Scripture. In some ways, the story centers around covenants or treaties, one made between Israel and the Gibeonites in Joshua 9, another between Jonathan and David in 1 Sam. The Gibeonites were a very shrewd bunch of people. Vote Up He was tired of life, tired of war, tired of all the politics, tired of all the rebellion, tired of Joab. They quailed at what they heard that Joshua and Israel had done at Jericho and Ai. Obviously, having seen what happened to Jericho and Ai, they knew God and Israel were serious. It takes into consideration things like accidental death, and premeditation. And he gathered an army and attacked the Amalekites, and delivered Israel from the hands of those who plundered them. If the Gibeonites brought guile and deceit into the land; it was Saul who set the example for deep and devastating delusion. (1) A three-year famine prompts David to seek God. the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Based on this principle, I think we can be confident that justice was carried out in this very nasty incident, even though we are not told all the details of what happened. WebMany centuries later (the period from the exodus of Israel to the reign of Saul is generally considered to be about 400 years), Saul came to the throne in Israel. Exodus 21:12-13 "He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death. Let his blood be on us and on our children., Perhaps the Gibeonites are a type of the inclusion of the gentiles Romans 9:22-24. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. God only let the rain cycle start again. Although the people of Israel had sworn to spare them, Saul had sought to strike them down in his zeal for the people of Israel and Judah. Jerusalem is almost directly west a few miles, but it is quite high from the Jordan to the Jerusalem. David didnt get the throne until Saul and Jonathon were both dead. David was anointed king many years before he took the throne. He had Saul tryin I Samuel 14:47-48 So Saul established his sovereignty over Israel, and fought against all his enemies on every side, against Moab, against the people of Ammon, against Edom, against the kings of Zobah, and against the Philistines. And it happened at the end of three days, after they had made a covenant with them, that they heard that they were their neighbors who dwelt near them. Joshua 9:3-6 But when the inhabitants of Gibeon heard what Joshua had done to Jericho and Ai, they worked craftily [remember that], and went and pretended to be ambassadors. Joshua kept his word to the Gibeonites even when it was inconvenient. Israel had to live with those consequences for years to come. He needed God to forgive him. The Gibeonites merely asked for a mutual help pact that would guarantee not only mercy and aid from Israel, but protection from their common enemies. They may not have been involved at all, depending on how early in Saul's reign this event took place. He went after a people that God did not want exterminated anymore. Does the devil have power to make us sick? 0 responses We do know the Gibeonites were cutters of wood and drawers of water for the altar of God the tabernacle was at Gibeon. This is interesting. Deuteronomy 19:7-10 Therefore I command you, saying, 'You shall separate three cities for yourself.' Why were two of Saul's sons and five of Saul's grandsons killed for a crime they didn't commit? Samuel turns away; Saul grabs at him and only catches his robe, and tears it. The Jewish Encyclopedia asserts that one group of rabbis felt that Saul's punishment at God's hands is a sign of his weak moral character whose only virtue was being tall and handsome. As mentioned earlier, there was the rebellion of Absalom. There was not a cloud in sight and you are the king. WebThis points to their employment in the sanctuary; and possibly may shed some light on the massacre of the Gibeonites by Saul (2 Samuel 21:1). Matt 24:4/Mk 13:5/Lk 21:8. Most people living in modern, Western culture better identify with flawed heroes, rather than perfect heroes. So he said, "Whatever you say, I will do for you." I know that he had other family problems because the prophecies said that he would. Oh, fear the LORD, you His saints! God tells us that, spiritually, we have to go and wipe them out. They handed their enemies hard, stale, moldy bread and told them it had been freshly baked when they left home. Another possibility is that when Saul slew many of the priests at Nob he also executed many Gibeonites (1 Samuel 22:19). 21:2, NIV).2 Saul did this in his zeal for Israel and Judah. So for nationalistic reasons Saul was guilty of attempted genocide. Only in one sense, there was a fall of man, but certainly not in the traditional sense. Davids choice of victims reflects at least the covenant between him and Jonathan, if not also the one between him However, there was not. At the time the Israelites under Joshua invaded the Promised Land of Canaan, most of the inhabitants rose up in arms against them. Let me ask God about this. God is not bloodthirsty, but He had told them what to do. 1 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. They made their dust-covered clothes to look worn and ragged as if they had been on the road for many days, even months. From the time of Joshua, throughout the long period of the Judges, the very presence of these deceitful people had not only been a thorn in the side of the Israelis; their position in the land was a dividing wedge that separated southern Judah from the rest of the Kingdom. It would take three or four generations for perversion to be kicked out of a society. Share A brief, but important, reference to the Gibeonites can also be found in 2 Samuel 21:1-14. God required atonement to be made. That is that he could have gone along with the Gibeonite's demands in order to get rid of seven possible contenders for his throne. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. or who shall stand in his holy place? God took the initiative in this matter, by afflicting the nation of Israel with a famine because the house of Saul had put the Gibeonites to death. WebKing Saul later broke the treaty that Joshua had signed and attacked the Gibeonites. Turn to Exodus 20 and see that right in the Ten Commandments it sounds like it could mean that sin does travel down the family tree. These are the two hints. Finally the light came on, and David said, "I had better ask what is going on here. & "Take heed that you be not deceived." Most, if not all, of those responsible were dead. And she did not allow the birds of the air to rest on them by day nor the beasts of the field by night. Here are guidelines to help facilitate a meaningful learning experience for everyone. When God called Saul to be king, Israel was on the verge of collapse. During the time of the judges, the Israelites had repeatedly turned away, lea II Samuel 21:1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. My supposition is that he may have been still questioning God about the way his reign seemed to have crumbled, and all he had was enemies around him. WebTheir apostasy began with the Hivites from Gibeon, and in time, the leaven slowly spread. We have to understand that the people of the land represent the things we need to overcomeour human nature and our problems; the world and its pulls to its ways; and Satan and all the ways that he tries to manipulate us. Was John the Baptist conceived via an immaculate conception? 20, and still another between Saul and David in 1 Samuel 24. I Samuel 14:52 Now there was fierce war with the Philistines all the days of Saul. He wanted to go do something else. Notice God declares that the bloodguilt was not just on Saul, but also his house. So the famine continued for another half a year. It shows you just how far things had sunk in the land. It springs out when you are not ready. Saul became a bit strange in the head after this, if you will remember. But, the others were Saul's grandsons. How many wars were fought? But it appears at least 40, maybe 50 years in the past. He was distracted. We do not know when it happened. Report, September 02 2013 Then Gibeon was a mile or two more to the north-northwest. God was not in all his thoughts during this time. by LeRoy Gardenier A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he. Then Ishbi-Benob, who was one of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose bronze spear was three hundred shekels, who was bearing a new sword, thought he could kill David. (Mark 6:20). It is easy to read this story blithely, and to think that David righted some longstanding wrongs that had happened, and then God happily sent rain to the parched land of Israel. Were they participants in killing the Gibeonites? Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. Instead of warfare and bloodshed, their weapons were guile and deceit. He says that He visits the iniquity upon them. The last time Saul did swear not to kill David, Saul swore "by YHWH" not to kill david he broke it many times over since. However there is nothing in the text that indicates he did this. WebThe biblical writer confirms this charge by stating that Saul tried to annihilate [ nkah, to inflict a dead blow] them (2 Sam. The Bible barely alludes to the king's mad scheme, but we know that Saul's plot miserably failed. They wanted the God of Israel to take it in the eye. The Gibeonites achieved their short term goal - survival; but they paid a terribly long term price for it - virtual slavery! II Samuel 21:14 So they performed all that the king commanded. Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. Therefore, this curse goes down until the gene pool is able to kick it outthree or four generations. And how do I know this? Yet, the Bible specifically says in Hebrews 4:15 that He was without sin. 'Whoever kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of witnesses [another layer that comes in]; but one witness is not sufficient testimony against a person for the death penalty. I haven't been keeping up on things. Saul had four sons. * Jonathanhe befriended David, died with Saul on Mount Gilboa * Abinadabdied with Saul on Mount Gilboa * Malchishuadied with ", Or even after two years. That would be such a carnal thing to dojust let the Gibeonites kill seven of Saul's kids who could claim the Israelite throne and get them out of the way. How long was the average lifespan at the time? According to a May 2007 George Barna Poll, 63% of Americans, mostly professing Christians, believe that Jesus sinned during His physical life! He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). HERALDS OF HOLOCAUST He did not negotiate at all. However, we have a great deal of trouble identifying with or understanding pure, innocent and perfect Galahad. He made huge errors in judgment, both personally and in a larger sense. Has the book of Amos been fulfilled or is it a reference to end times? It seems that modern Westerners want their heroes flawed. Jesus Christ should be everyone's ultimate hero. Saul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. There should have been payment for it. ( v.1 ) So God sent a famine to punish a kingdom for something that a former king supposedly did. We have our own sins to pay for; we do not pay for theirs. How much food did Jesus produce? He just let matters continue naturally and let it rub in for another six or seven months. Jonathan. This cultural trait makes it difficult for many people to identify with Jesus Christ. persecuted and killed the Gibeonites men in a covenant relationship with Israel who served at the tabernacle. It is not genetic. Had him over to the palace a few times." We see in this little vignette that innocent people die; grief lingers forever; idolatry is committed; and the curse of famine continues; another harvest fails; and the land remains defiled; everything stinks of death. SERIES INTRODUCTION He did not perform any miracle, or any other thing to show that He was happy with the way that things turned out. This meant the latter harvest has passed, and maybe another month or so went by. This is a bit unusual. King David is mentioned by name as a hero of faith. Now if the LORD your God enlarges your territory, as He swore to your fathers, and gives you the land which He promised to give to your fathers, and if you keep all these commandments and do them, which I command you today, to love the LORD your God and to walk always in His ways, then you shall add three more cities for yourself besides these three, lest innocent blood be shed in the midst of your land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, and thus guilt of bloodshed be upon you. One other thing: Samuel said that God is not going to go back on His word. Spiritual virtues and qualities are largely unseen yet are more real and potent in lasting effects than the most formidable nuclear pile. So, give or take, 40 to 50 years have passed. He says to watchbe aware, be awake, be vigilant; know what your spiritual state is. They were going to come in there and just exterminate. On the mammoth scene of world history this minor alliance would rank as a minute encounter. It causes a problem in the way that the next generation is formed. Why are they where they were? All I do know is that they do hold a solid place in world history and one of their offshoots or branches were the Gibeonites. ESV - Yet, because of the long time that has passed since then until now, when the Gibeonites were asked to bring it up, how many of the guilty ones had died? They had remembered it for 40 or 50 years. But, are these people telling the truth? He then tells David that he can't marry Michal until he brings Saul 100 Philistine foreskins, thinking that David will definitely die in this attempt. "We don't want any money, for sure not Saul's money. One of the things He specifically mentions is famine, which happens to be the third sealphysical famine, but we remember from Amos that there is a spiritual famine as well. They got a couple of their men, maybe elders, and got them to appear like they came along distance. They buried the bones of Saul and Jonathan his son in the country of Benjamin in Zelah, in the tomb of Kish his father. They wanted blood by putting to death seven male descendants to die for the crimes of that house against the Gibeonites. He is able to judge justly. There is another thing that needs to be thrown out there as a possible scenario, and this would have been the very worst and lowest that David could have sunk to. WebVetus Testamentum 24:1 (January 1974):1-7.] That the famine continued indicates God displeasure with David's decision and inner motives. You see, famine on the scale like thisthree yearsis a sign from God that things were not copacetic in the land. What have they done? In addition, his own soldiers had to tell him, "David, you just don't have it anymore. And after that God heeded the prayer for the land. How many died in sicknesses? But that conclusion is a bit too sanguine once you begin to look into that which is not said, or what is said elsewhere. And it very seriously affected his judgment in this matter. If people grow up in a society and culture that does not have God at their beck and call, they do whatever they wantwhatever comes naturally. Finally, after six or seven months, the rains came in their natural cycle. Her actions made David realize that he had violated another of God's commands by leaving the bodies of Saul, Jonathan, and the seven other sons unburied. He did this "in his zeal for. Ezekiel 18:19-20 Yet you say, 'Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?' The Lord told them they had made a commitment to these people and they had to stand by it. See? Spiritual Strongholds (Part Two): Faithful Trust. He was far from God during this time. There is less bloodshed, and there will not be much opportunity like in Gentile nations for these blood feuds to last for years and generations. Where have you been, David? Although he had peace at this time, I think he was worried because they just had two successive rebellions, and were almost to the point of victory over King David until they were eliminated. Something is wrong, David. It was common knowledge. Hearing that Joshua was camped in their general neighborhood, after his devastating defeat of the strategic cities of Jericho and Ai, the Gibeonites sent a delegation to him at nearby Gilgal. There is a great deal more than what meets the eye. There was no negotiation; there was no calling them on anything. At the request of the Gibeonites themselves, seven sons of Saul were executed ( II Sam. Then, they went after Jericho, and it fell. Saul, after having disqualified It is not pretty when we allow the people of the land to dictate to us. For unknown reasons, Joshua and the elders of Israel quickly bit on this proposal. We are getting toward the end of King David's life. In other words, we want them to be just like us. Deuteronomy 21:22-23 If a man has committed a sin deserving of death, and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day, so that you do not defile the land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God. Like they came along distance past the end of II Samuel army attacked... You, saying, 'You shall separate three cities for yourself. both personally and in a relationship... Son not bear the guilt of the field by night have our own sins to pay for theirs,... Saul did this also executed many Gibeonites ( 1 ) a three-year famine prompts David to seek God not. Going on here the traditional sense Part two ): Faithful Trust goes until! So that he dies shall surely be put to death inquired of the.. Is almost directly west a few miles, but also his house so give. 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